Season 3, Episode 10: Hot Girls Have IBS

Welcome back to The Gut Show! I'm your host Erin and in this episode, we are sitting down with the founder of BelliWelli and the hot girls have IBS campaign, Katie Wilson! Katie is a fellow IBS suffer, she was a former matchmaker, and she is a self-confessed prank queen. She is no stranger to balancing her belly bother with a busy lifestyle. BelliWelli came along as a result of her finding solutions in her own life.

In this episode, we're going to talk about how she decided to start BelliWelli and what has come out of that, but we're gonna focus a lot on how she was able to build such a thriving community of those who are living with IBS, and how those with IBS can get involved and join that community to spread awareness as well as be bold and talk about what might be going on beneath the surface of what we may see when it comes to chronic illness and digestive disorders.

So enjoy today's episode! If you have any questions or you want to connect with us, you can find us in The Gut Community.

Today’s episode is sponsored by Seed. Their signature product, the DS-01™ Daily Synbiotic, is a combination of science-backed probiotic strains and prebiotics that work in synergy to promote healthy digestion, ease of bloating, glowing skin, and more. You can learn more about Seed and the Daily Synbiotic at www.seed.com. Use my code erinjudge15 for 15% off your first month's supply.

Erin Judge: Katie, thank you so much for being here! We're gonna go ahead and jump in! I want to hear your stories, tell us who you are and then why you decided to create your company BelliWelli.

Katie Wilson: Thanks so much you're in. PS, I'm a super fan of yours, I live for your content! It's either relatable, funny, or I learned something. So obsessed! Keep doing it, I love it!

Thanks for having me on the podcast, I'm Katie, the co-founder of BelliWelli, I founded BelliWelli with my husband, Nick, who today is our Director of Operations. Our story goes a little something like this, I'll keep it short, but some may or may not know I was a professional matchmaker for eight years with no aspiration of starting a company, and even more specifically, I was a celebrity matchmaker for five of those years, which was an accident and another conversation for another day. And the first question I always get is, do you still matchmake and yes, I can't help myself, every few days, I'll look at my ongoing spreadsheet, my rolling spreadsheet and decide if two people need to meet each other, know each other, and it's for free and fun, and I'm addicted for life.

But I later went on then to be the chief dating strategist at Match and in that time I developed debilitating gut issues, totally threw me for a loop. In my specific case, I had a bout of terrible food poisoning and never rebounded. And then did all the things you're not supposed to do, took, you know, 26 rounds of antibiotics in the course of a year, every supplement under the sun, too many supplements, and my stomach just quite frankly never went back to normal. So just as anything that starts impacting your life, I became obsessed and started talking about it with anyone that would listen. Maybe not everyone does that, but that’s what I did, and in doing that I also did everything you're supposed to do, I did colonoscopies, endoscopies, breath tests, capsule tests, diets, naturopaths, Western medicine, stool studies, you name it, I promise you, I tried it.

Eventually I walked out of my doctor's office with a black and white handout that said, try the low FODMAP diet. And you have IBS, that was part two. And around this time, what I also found to be interesting was, you know, I was sitting across from what should be some of the most healthy people, right, meaning celebrities. They've got chefs, they've got dietitians, they have got trainers, they have got, you name it, they have it, and I couldn't believe how many of them related to this kind of idea that they were living with daily gut issues, or at the very least bloating or lots of food intolerances. And then step two, or three I'll call it was they started calling up GI doctors and simply saying, look, give me the non doctor answer. It sure feels like there's an uptick in GI trouble across the general population, is this true?

I should have mentioned a few of my former matchmaking clients were GI doctors, strangely enough. And their answers were strangely similar, which is, yeah, there is an uptick in GI issues, we've seen a big uptick in the last five to 10 years and it doesn't mean there's not solutions, but you know, it's a combination of things. So there'd be the food and the environment hormones, right, but it's very real, what you're seeing is true is you know, 10 years ago, you saw less than we do today. And then I think for me, the straw that broke the whatever that saying is, was I sent out a survey monkey to my personal network and ended up reaching 500 people between my husband and I, and that was just our personal network, no affiliation with gut issues, gut health. And in that survey, I said do you consider yourself an IBS sufferer? And I never in a million years dreamed that I'd have more than 10% of respondents reporting yes. And 76% of those respondents said yes. And that blew my mind for two reasons. One, it meant this was huge, this was real, but two, no one was talking about it. How is it that 75% of my network is going through something similar, and we're not connecting the dots.

So all that to say I still had no aspirations of starting a company, I was matchmaking away and helping to build apps at match and quite literally, you know, helping people date, but I found myself in tears one night because I miss chocolate chip cookies. And my sweet husband who had no experience whatsoever in baking or cooking or anything kitchen related said look, let me try to help you with this. So he consulted with our GI doctor over zoom and a food scientist and said I'm going to make you the perfect IBS friendly chocolate chip cookie. And in that case, for me, that was low FODMAP at the time, and I also was avoiding gluten and dairy, which was just a personal trigger for me.

He spent five months on it, I loved them. I loved them so much, I said, we've got to see if the rest of the community needs or wants these. So we created a really scrappy brand, this was before BellWelli, we just call it IB simple, and threw up a website and woke up to hundreds of bars ordered. So three months down the line, we've converted our entire kitchen into a commercial kitchen, quite literally shelving, lining the whole thing, our landlord does not know to this day that that was happening, we had a single oven and Nick was making thousands of bars by hand every night till 4:30am at that point, it just became very clear that three things needed to happen. One, we needed to raise capital, two, we need to scale out of the kitchen, and three, we needed to create a really thoughtful brand.

So all three of those things happened, we raised our first million dollars from some great strategics. I called up the designers that I had worked with that match and said, I know you guys build dating products, build a brand that makes IBS okay to talk about, and they were up for the challenge. And then we hired a formulator to legitimize Nicks recipe. And then I think the last thing I'll add, so we did all that with the intention of launching on March 26 of 2021, so just about 10 months ago, which we did do, but just to complicate things, my water broke with our second baby two and a half months early, the day before we were launching a company. So launch the business, I had a one in a million complication and an up hemorrhaging during birth and so they did a hysterectomy to save my life, which was incredible and super lucky to be here. So we did launch the business from the hospital, and we ran it from the hospital for the first month and a half, which sounds sounds crazy and sounds like a bad thing, but quite honestly, it was a really cool experience because all the doctors and nurses at the hospital became a huge part of the launch, and so we had all sorts of doctors filtering in all day, every day and sampling product and giving us thoughts and advice. And we all you know, made it up the other end. So that brings me to current day, I won't go I won't go further for now, but that's how BellWelli came to be today!

Erin Judge: That's awesome! I knew a little bit of that, because I think I was part of the launch, I got to share and I got an email from like, what are you doing emailing me from a hospital bed? But I mean, I think we see this a lot and the reason why I wanted you on the show is, it's really important to see people with IBS doing things that are even outwardly seen as successful. And I think that that's a hard line because I don't want it to ever seem like this is only what success looks like, because it doesn't, sometimes success literally is getting out of bed in the morning, but I think in the world of IBS, because people aren't talking about it, everyone feels alone and isolated. And honestly, you know, I have a big frustration with a lot of like Facebook support groups, and, you know, we've previously talked about like our frustration a little bit with even social media, I think there's so much of a focus on the dark side of it that it feels like, you know, if you get an IBS diagnosis, and then you go into the world to discover what comes with it, you hear a lot of what you can't do, what's not available for you, you know, you're stuck with this for life.

I think we do need to acknowledge that like life is harder, truly, with IBS, and like there are some definite barriers and everyone's experiencing it differently. I think it's important that we talked about the negative side, right, it's important that we talk about the hard parts. It's also important that we talk about IBS and also talk about people who have IBS that are creating solutions and show that like things can come out of that too. And that's what I really like about your story is because it's not that you set out to be a food developer and saw this niche, you lived it, saw the problem and decided to maybe solve it. Sidebar, I think an IBS matchmaking probably needs to have it like, put gut issue people together!

Katie Wilson: So much yes to that!

Erin Judge: Like yes, it's so much obviously needs to happen, that would take away a lot of the dating issues! So like forget embarrassment, like you both struggle! But then also, you know, you don't want to both be down for the count. That's just a sidebar. We're not going to start another business.

But with that, I would love to know a little bit of the development process. So I know that you mentioned your husband kind of started on his own, with getting people involved, in getting you know the recipe itemized. Are you guys certified low FODMAP?

Katie Wilson: We are, yes, and that was kind of my obsession throughout. So, you know, we get asked a lot….well, I’ll start by saying Erin, I just I resonate so much with what you're saying and it's actually why we've chosen to take the stance we have as a company. And by that, I mean, we've said we are never aiming to be the experts in low FODMAP or IBS. I know that sounds counterintuitive, right? Because we're building an IBS friendly, a low FODMAP brand. But that's not where I see us adding value to the community, I see us adding value in that we are in it with you, we live it with you and we are here to start the discussion and make it okay to talk about.

There are so many amazing experts like yourself, right? Who know more than I ever well, and we lean on those experts and we surface information from those experts, but that's not us. We're not here to give you daily articles about managing your symptoms, we're here to say, we're in this together, we might as well talk about it right, if we're all going through it and it doesn't have to be a dark cloud. It is, and that doesn't that doesn't mean to take away from how difficult it is to live with this, right? I’m still an IBS sufferer, I do not have my symptoms under control every day all day, I certainly go through flare ups, so I I get it. I resonate with every comment and post I ever see on our page. So that's very much kind of the stance we've taken as a brand. And I'm happy with that.

So in terms of development, poor Nick never, you know, had aspirations of doing this, so we threw him into the deep end. But we get asked a lot, you know why don't you have a nut free product? Why don't you have a high protein product? You know, when you're developing food, you can only pick so many, right? And I wish we had a nut free, high protein, vegan, gluten free, certified low FODMAP product. But that wasn't realistic, and I should say I don't think it is realistic. So when we were kind of chasing what value props are most important to us, that was low FODMAP, gluten free, vegan, and we did want to put some probiotics into the bar, it's a micro dose, but that was important to me. And the reason those were important to me was because I personally can't eat gluten or dairy and I never felt like I could put out a product that I myself couldn't eat. So that doesn't mean everyone with IBS needs to cut out gluten or dairy as we know. But for me, that's what works best for me, and that was really important that the product I was putting out in the world is truly a gut trigger free product.

So Monash was a lengthy process. For those who don't know, if you are chasing certification, that means putting every product through lab testing, we brought on a formulator, who was very well versed, and it makes formulating a baked product really hard. And so I'm really proud of it because you know, in a normal gluten free bar, you might be able to, you know, rely on oat flour as your single base. But you can't do that right when you're chasing low FODMAP, so it means that there are three flours in the bar. I should also mention that this was not, as you mentioned here, and I never said I want to start a company, hmmm,,,,what needs innovation, oh, low FODMAP, I'll go start this company. I started this because it meant something to me and I was living it and I noticed others around me living it too. So I've also been adamant about the fact that the community should, and will choose everything we do, you know, now through the end of to the end of BelliWelli, whatever that looks like. And we really stuck to that.

So when we first launched a product, for example, we put stevia in the product and the community said we don't like this, we don't want it, we have an issue with stevia and two weeks later, we took it out. That was a huge lift because it meant reprinting packaging, which cost 1000s of dollars, it meant going back to production. But I am fiercely protective of the IBS community in this case, and if we're making a product for them, and it's not working for them, it's not a product that works. So we have iterated on the product I think 11 times, all based on community feedback. So I obsessively survey every customer and if you bought you know that you get like five emails from me asking how it went and I personally send out 45 emails from my own gmail account every night to customers to get feedback. And so I literally take it on board. So anyways, that's the short version of kind of how we came to be. That said, we are not sticking to bars, so you will soon see us branching out to other sweet snacks.

Erin Judge: Ooh, I like that. I like that you're owning sort of the sweet space too, I think that's something that is definitely under utilized in low FODMAP. And it's interesting that you say that because I think it's easy as a consumer to think like brands are always these like big bad brands, right? They got all the money, they've got all the resources, which you know, the big ones do, but in this world of low FODMAP, brands are very small. And I think yours is one of the small ones, because it's new and it's so niche. But I think the value is that some of the best brands, my favorite brands I've ever worked with, and you can tell a difference just in the messaging and the people as you get to know them, but they have such a community first approach. And I think that's something that within IBS, like yes, it's hard to talk about, yes, it feels isolating, but when you get into the IBS community, it can be so empowering, because brands have your best interests in mind, sometimes, the best ones do and like you know, that is a recurring theme. And even practitioners like you know, I'm biased towards my team, I think that we have everyone's best interests in mind because we all have IBS and I'm fiercely passionate about people with IBS getting a chance and like getting resources and like I'll fight tooth and nail for it, like I'll fight you know, doctors on it, I'll fight everyone on it. Not in a negative way, I don't pretend I know more than anyone else. I believe that those with IBS deserve more, and I know that you agree and I think that's uprising so I'm really excited about the area of IBS and low FODMAP and what that's gonna look like and resources.

In that vein, you mentioned getting fundraising. And that's something that a lot of people don't understand that fundraising means that other people are coming in and have the potential to have a say in what you do, which is kind of big. So what was that like? And were people pretty receptive to that? Was there some stigma around what you were doing and even your values?

Katie Wilson: I love this question, because I fully expected everyone to say one of two things. One, what is IBS? That's too niche, or two, I don’t want to be a part of a food product that's associated with IBS. The reason I get excited when I talk about this question is that is the polar opposite of the experience we had. I kept track, every single investor we have talked with, whether they ended up investing in BelliWelli or not, had an IBS touch point. And by that I mean it was their immediate reaction is oh, my sister has IBS or my family member has IBS, or I had IBS for a few years, and I really worked on managing my symptoms, or I totally get what you're doing, I'm so excited about this.

And to me, one that signaled like just how to talk big this is and how, unfortunately, how much it's not talked about. But we had a really positive fundraising experience for that reason, because everyone understood this is not a niche problem, right? This is huge and when it is impacting you, it impacts your life in such a big, big and important way. So we had all sorts of really awesome investors during the cap table. We had the Winklevoss twins during the cap table, we had the SVP at Clorox, we had the early members at Smart Suites, we had actors during the cap table, we had so a really cool mix of people and I think again just what excites me most about that is that I can literally say everyone on our cap table, meaning every investor we have, when I look at that list today is someone who is personally very excited about the mission and not just excited because they see it as a business opportunity, excited because they had a connection. It's crazy right that like you know, quite literally every investor we cross paths with had a connection that that really means this is so much bigger than my stomach hurts, right? That's not what this is. So anyways, it was it was a great experience and they continue to get it. I think it's rare that you get a bad investor but we're so lucky in that we have a bunch of people who just champion what we're doing and feel excited about it, right, who say put up more billboards, e get it, send us hot girls have IBS sweatshirts. We love it, we support it, we get it, we're here to talk about it. And we just need more of that!

Erin Judge: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I love that. That comes up a lot, you know, in conversations I have with people of how much we want to normalize the experience of IBS, not as a negative, but normalize it in media as something that we talk about in a real way. I think we hear about it as a joke and that makes me mad. So those actors, I want to know who they are like, how can we get media to portray IBS not as the end of a joke, right? Or not just this, like, oh, this is a weakness you have? It's like, no, this is really impacting people and there's so much more to it and I think there's so much empathy that comes with IBS that you would never get from, you know, somewhere else. And so that's something that I would love to see more of. So you mentioned the billboard, in LA right?

Katie Wilson: It's in the middle of LA and we just put up another one in Portland this morning, I'm from Portland so that’s where that choice came from.

Erin Judge: Oh, wow, I love that. I would say bring one to Nashville, but hot chicken and IBS, that could be interesting. And I feel like the industry would say no, we profit off of people. But let's get back to that, so the Billboard Hot Girls have IBS. So fun! I know that like celebrities were sharing it and it kind of went big. So where did that come from? What was the deal with the hot girls have IBS campaign? And like, what was kind of the goal of that?

Katie Wilson: Yes. So I'm gonna have to give this one to tiktok a little bit. But I was scrolling TikTok and I saw what was to your point a joke, right? It was hot girls have tummy problems? Why do hot girls always have tummy problems? And in this case, it was I think the person that made the video was saying it quite literally. I saw it, I chuckled, never thought about it again. And part of my mission, as the founder of this has been like, like we've talked about, you know, a number of times, even in this call is to normalize this conversation and make it okay for actors to come out and talk about it, because we need that.

I was driving to the middle of LA one day, and I was noticing that like, most billboards are pretty lame, right? They're like watches and they're white or green and that, gosh, I feel like billboards are an interesting place to talk about IBS. But how would you do that? Right? How would you have that? How would you? How would you capture someone's attention and like, normalize IBS if you had three seconds of someone's captive attention as they drove by? I thought back to that TikTok and I thought, I wonder if there's a twist on this that almost allows us to reclaim the narrative, and use hot girls but in a different way, right? When we're saying hot girls have IBS, we are not, we are not meaning, you know, quite literally hot girls, we are meeting that if you have got IBS, you're a hot girl in our mind, we are all in this together. We're all hot girls, I don't care if you're a male or a female or how you identify or what your pronouns are, you have IBS, you're a hot girl with IBS in our mind.

And so I thought this could be an interesting campaign and it needs to be hot pink, obviously, right in the middle of LA where no one's expecting it and googled LA billboards called the first name on the list and said, how do I get up a billboard that says hot girls have IBS? They laughed and said, I think I think you should rethink the idea and I said, no, it's got to be this. And so they laughed, and they didn't get it but they said, okay, we'll do this. We put up the billboard two weeks later and it turns out, everyone got it, right? What I was nervous about as a founder was like, I did not want the message to be misconstrued. I did not want people to think we really meant hot girls have IBS, and I really didn't know if that was gonna land. And it totally worked. And I don't mean works, because everyone posted it, it works because everyone understood it. So we had literally three 75 year old women take a picture in front of the billboard one day, and I think it's the best picture I've ever received from, you know, from the billboard. And they said, we've never felt hotter, and they were in front of this billboard, we've got IBS and we've never felt hotter and I was like, that is exactly what we had hoped for.

And I mean, the pictures and the stories, I got people in front of the billboard on the third day, we drove to the billboard and there was a line of like, 12 people out front taking a photo and I stopped and heard their stories and it was like to me that's what I care about, right? Like that's actually what gets me emotional, it gets me excited. And so we're going to continue with it and you know, we hope everyone continues to get what we're doing. I think it's working, I think people get it and that's what I'm, I'm relieved and happy and so yeah, well hopefully keep expanding out to cities, I think Dallas is on our list after Portland and for anyone listening, let us know where we need to be. We are totally happy to put up a billboard wherever you guys think we should go next!

Erin Judge: I love that! And yeah, I agree, it's always hard to know, like, what's going to land with people, especially today, you know, where anything you say can get taken the wrong way. I like that idea of like, reclaiming it of like, you know, it, like even being a hot girl, I think in the world of even beauty, like, women have reclaimed a lot and, you know, in the role of gender, like, we've all just reclaimed, like, you know, what we want and, you know, maybe something that would have been used in a negative way, it's like, well, we can rewrite what that means. And I think we have to thank the younger generation for that, as a millennial, it's like, oh, I don't know if we're leading that, I think it's the generation below us, but I appreciate it because it is interesting. And I think anything that kind of catches you off your guard of like, oh, okay, what does that mean? You know, and it's not a negative thing. And you can stand and be proud and say that and, you know, also know that like, no, it doesn't mean that you meet the beauty standards, like, it actually shows that, like, the beauty standards are BS, because like, most of the people pretending that nothing's wrong with them have IBS, too. And, you know, it's like being able to say, like, I'm a real person with like, I got issues that are going on, I poop, you know, I have issues with it. Like, and, you know, you might too and like, we're in it together, and we can talk about it and we don't have to, like, have these jokes about like, we don't have to, like we can talk about it as you know, this is part of who I am. It's not all of me, but it's something that I get to claim and which I love.

And so it didn't stop at the billboard though. I know that you're wearing it so you get into sweatshirts, you have the cutest like bag, I still need to order mine because it's super cute. I have tried to think of how I’m going to use it, I think for supplements. You guys did like setting up in grocery stores. Like there was a lot that kind of came, was it before that or after that? Kind of talked about some of those things.

Katie Wilson: Yes. You kind of realize that this is what resonated right? You never know when you start a company what's going to resonate, right you know what you want to accomplish, but you don't know you know what that secret sauce is and it turns out this was that thing that communicated the message, started the conversation and made people feel okay to talk about. We are in central markets and the buyer at that store is the coolest buyer and she totally gets what we're doing and she's been a champion of the space from day one. And so we said look, we want to set up demo tables and hot girl IBS it out. And it was the coolest, we did it for five days in Texas and we've now done a few more rounds. And it is so fun. We have people that come in, they've seen it on Tiktok right or they've seen the billboard, they come in, we had I mean literally ages like 10 to 90 hold the hot girls have IBS patch, do hot girls with IBS dance and eat the bars and it was really cool because in that everyone was kind of sharing their own stories right and I can't tell you how many times I heard this is so me. I didn't know, I didn't know others were going through this and those are those moments that I live for.

I'm like yes, yes, you are not like, you're not crazy, I totally went through the same thing. So yes, we sell sweatshirts, the other sweatshirt we just came out with says low FODMAP just became cool. We have a little petition going on right now to do sweatshirts that say IBS, it's a lifestyle because one of the celebrities posted after the billboard went up, that was her caption and it was like, unfortunately, it can become a lifestyle, but so we'll continue on that path. Retailers, you know, you're gonna see us in more retail stores this year and they know about the billboard, right, and a lot of them are on board, right, so we're thinking of like some fun activations we can do at retailers where you least expect to see hot girls with IBS plastered everywhere. So yeah, there will be lots more. Some kind of cool celebrity collaborations coming up in 2022 that hinge on hot girls with IBS. So some exciting stuff!

Erin Judge: Yeah, that's awesome. And if someone like wants to kind of follow along with that and get involved in all of that, whether you buy a product or not, I think what I love so much about what you guys are doing is yes, there's the product and the product is great, and it's helpful, and it's beneficial. But it's not all just about the product, it's about the community which you mentioned before, because that's what matters the most. So if someone wants to be part of that, if they want to be involved, is it the newsletter that they sign up for, is it just following on social media kind of where would they be able to get that information first?

Katie Wilson: Totally. So I will not be able to do this forever as we continue to grow, but for right now if you send me a DM on Instagram, if you send BelliWelli snacks a DM on Instagram, I try my best to send voice notes personally to everyone that DMs us because I love, I look at this as just making a bunch of new friends but again, eventually, I'll have to have someone come aboard to help me with that, so you might hear another voice at some point. But if you do that today, I will reach out, I can't wait to hear your story and meet you. Definitely subscribe to our newsletter when you hop on our site. I answer every email myself, if you email Katie@belliwelli.com, even if it's just to share your story and and say this is what I'm going through and it sucks, I am so so happy to chat. So Katie@belliwelli.com is an instant in, our Instagram as well, we're dipping our toe into tiktok, and have no idea what we're doing, but come find us anywhere and everywhere and I promise I'll eventually get the chance to speak with you!

Erin Judge: Awesome. I love that. And then thinking about you know, someone, I know…..well, I guess you didn't have a business background, you had a matchmaking background.

Katie Wilson: I definitely spend time in startups, my first I was at Hulu and then I was at a company called three day rule, which was female funded, female backed and that was a matchmaking company and it's the best experience in my life and then eventually got into celebrity matchmaking whatever to match. So yeah, it was like a business mixed with dating and people and all of the above. But, the startup I will say has been especially in CPG, it's tough to navigate, right? You know, I'm an ideas person and I think about story and community and ideas and when you're running a food company, a logistics is an understatement. There's the logistics that come with this, right? There's actually producing product and getting product from point A to B, which sounds simple and oh, gosh, is not!

Erin Judge: No, no, especially with regulations that are good. But then it's like, oh, okay, how do you recruit all that? And it's pricey. I don't think people understand the financial costs, which is why you bring in investors, and that's great that you had that success. What would you tell someone, maybe that’s listening, and they're like, I have IBS, like, I'm inspired, like, I want to start a brand or company? What would you tell them? Do you have any tips that maybe you learned along the way?

Katie Wilson: Do it and the community will help you and by that, so you mentioned this earlier, and I meant to touch on it, you know, I'm groups with a lot of founders who are starting better for you companies outside of the IBS space, you know, kombuchas and cookie doughs and their relationship with their competitors is so different than ours in the space. They think I'm crazy, right? I'll you know, in a few weeks, we're doing a giveaway with Fody and OWYN right, both of which are big, low FODMAP brands, because it's we, I think I speak for all of us low FODMAP brands, we don't look at it that way in this in this category or community, it's like, let's all help each other. If anything, we want more brands to the space, right? Because we all need more low FODMAP options, and more people talking about this. So maybe I'm crazy and maybe that that's not the truth, you know, I can only speak for me, but all I know is that I felt nothing but support from every other low FODMAP brand in the space and their founders and I really feel like it's a we're all in this together mentality. Which certainly makes starting a business in the low FODMAP space easier than other spaces, I'll say.

And I also just think, you know, starting a business in general, whether it be IBS or not, the barrier to entry is less than you think and, you know, there's so many helpful people, I always say, you know, hold me to it. If any founder I don't care if you're starting a literally a company I know nothing, about I will pour anything and everything I have into helping because I believe in enabling founders and there's a lot of people like that, who will help you along the way. I also think if you're if you're an IBS sufferer, not even IBS, but Crohn's or colitis or you've lived with gut issues, you're already a better person to start that company than Joe Schmo who looks at this as an opportunity, a business opportunity, because it is impossible to fully understand what it means to live with gut trouble, whether it be IBS SIBO, Crohn's, colitis, 1,000,001 things than someone else. You just there's no better person to start something then than the one living it.

Erin Judge: Yeah, that's awesome. And you don't have to be a top professional, like in the dietetic space like people see that, they're like, oh, well, I need to be the dietitian or I need to be you know this person. It's like you don't have to, like you can be an influencer in the space, you can be a comedian in this space, you can be a personality in the space, you can be, you know, you could start clothing, you could do so much in this space. You can also, you know, do websites for people and use that as your angle. And I think I completely agree with you that, you know, it's the barrier isn't that high, and sometimes there is some freedom. It's not as easy as it seems either, I’ll say that.

Katie Wilson: It’s consistency. I think where most people drop off, like, you have to be that person who just says, you know, I'm at this all day, every day for the long term, right? It's consistency, I think. And there's a lot, I shouldn't minimize the effort, right? It is a, you know, right now our schedule is 6am to 4:30am every day. So that's ridiculous and that's not sustainable, but that's what it's been for the last year. So yes, there's definitely time and effort involved for sure.

Erin Judge: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, is there anything else before we close down today's episode? Is there anything else you want to share about maybe what you have coming up at BelliWelli that you haven't shared already, or just some things that you have in store for this year?

Katie Wilson: Yeah, um, so I mentioned I kind of teased and I'll just continue to tease it but I, unfortunately, can't share yet, look for more sweet snack products. We're also focused on breakfast so if anyone has any cool ideas, like I said, I'm a huge fan of hearing it straight from the community rather than brainstorming myself, but we hear from everyone in the IBS community that breakfast is a pain point a lot. And, again, given that we really are kind of obsessed and focused on creating sweet snacks, if anyone could think of like a nostalgic, sweet breakfast thing that they're missing, let us know. Or anything, I should say that that would make their life easier. Look for a few cool celeb collabs, which I'm excited about, because I just think it helps to, you know, helps all of us continue to normalize that conversation more broadly. Possibly a TV appearance, I can't share more there, but possibly, we'll keep you guys posted. And more than anything, we just want to keep hearing from you guys. It's not a line, I really mean that, this isn't a company without that. So the closer we stay to everyone in the community, the better. And so please share your stories, just drop a line, even if it's an emoji. And come on the journey with us for sure!

Erin Judge: And I'll share all of the links, so websites, social handles, Katie's email, all of that will be in the show notes for you guys to access. If you're like, oh, I want to get involved and I want to support and honestly, truly it is you know, us with IBS, like we stick together and so that support even as someone in the social media space like it means so much even to get the emoji, to get the like, to get the little share, for you to reach out and share your story or that you connect or that something mattered to you, that you even laughed at it, like it makes such a big difference when it feels like you know it's a big world and you're a small person in it trying to do good and you know, it helps those long days feel better. And so that's awesome Katie, thank you so much for being here.

Katie Wilson: Thank you so much, a sincere thank you Erin! Like if you guys are not, I mean you are following her if you're listening to this podcast, but she is the best of the best. So keep doing you. I love it!

Erin Judge: I appreciate it!